Ode - How about taking the current welfare money to pay for day care for the kid(s) while the parent(s) are required to work.  If no one will hire them, the government can have some sort of "last resort" jobs they'll be required to take.  Something along the line of picking up roadside trash, helping paint and repair homes for elderly and disabled, etc.  Nothing too cushy - this way they'll be motivated to leave the mandatory government work and find a better job in the private sector.

Wouldn't cost more than the government is already paying, every able-bodied person would work, the kids would have minimal safe care.  Meanwhile, the former welfare parents - now working parents - are paying their share of taxes, Social Security, etc.

What do you think?  I'm dead serious.

Hunger a great motivator, huh?    I'm not sure she would have any first-hand knowledge of hunger.  She looks a little plump in that pink pepto-bismol getup . . .

Rather than her being wrong or incosiderate, it's more insensitive.  Only a clod would make such a comment in this current day and age.  And, there but for the grace of G-d, go many of us.  

With the billions of dollars in taxpayer money currently flowing into the government, there is more than enough to ensure no one goes hungry.   The new poverty minimum should be raised to $30K per year.  A net income from such a salary even then may not be enough.

 

Hunger may be motivational in the short term, but quickly leads to apathy.  It takes a minimum level of calories before there is any conversion to energy. If anyone doubts that, take a longer look next time you see photos of people living through a famine in Africa. 

Speaking of which, there is a big threat of another one soon in Ethiopia because of a dramatic increase in grasshoppers recently.

A few (hopefully) last words on this post:

Ladyjean gave an exceptional comment on why it is impractical to monitor parenting.   It's costly (much more so than any food program) and it's difficult to quantify "good parenting".  (I can assure you that everyone would have a different idea about what should qualify a parent for jail time.

And while I appreciate jstol3's eagerness to pay more taxes for jail and foster care through sin taxes (I immediately volunteer on-line poker winnings & support legalizing marijuana for the same reasons as him) the real need is foster care families.   (Like I've often said, don't be pro-life unless you are willing to adopt a black crack baby with AIDS)  Quality foster care homes are in short supply.

And while we all agree that aid programs are abused...ladyjean, myself and others who have commented believe that the good these programs do outweigh the cost of the waste from abuse.

Now for some clarification on the original post (which was not meant to discuss the validity of government aid)

First, this is NOT a new program!   This has been a part of the Department of Agriculture for some time now.  It has already seen extensive use throughout Missouri (and the rest of the nation)

My comments were not to justify the program.  I would think that it would go without comment.  (And with  over 450 Views only jstol3 & oddesecon have complained about it.)

What did upset me (and it should upset you) are the comments on the program by Rep. Davis.   The woman in charge of the committee who advises the state legislature on laws concerning children writes things like "Hunger can be a great motivator"!

If her district wants to keep electing her...that reflects on them.  But I personally do not want her to chair the committee on Children & Families.  And that's why I ask everyone to contact their state legislator to lobby the Speaker of the House to remove her from her post!

Maybe we could decriminalize some "fad" crimes like marijuana use and tax the marijuana. That frees up jailspace and brings in more revenue.

I'm no marijuana fan but let's be realistic - its not going to go away just because we wish it would.

One consequence of legalizing marijuana would be that the Mexican drug cartels that operate on our border would lose a lot of revenue (a good thing). It might just cut down ILLEGAL immigration (another good thing).

Decriminalizing a lot of things might bear looking at. Special interest groups have managed to get so many things criminalized that I'm surpried that we aren't all in jail.

What is more important than a child? Why do we hesitate to make parents more responsible for bringing them into the world?

Conservatives are so much about "pro-life" and Liberals are so much about "pro-choice". After the kids are born why don't we force the parents who made the choice be responsible? Why?

nemo -

Where did you get the idea that I thought you play poker with children? I certainly didn't say that. You do play with the parents of children though. You would have to obey a good conscience and give them their money back at the end of the game so the kids wouldn't suffer the loss wouldn't you? How could you sleep at night knowing that the parent had lost more than he or she could afford?

I know what you said about hiring people on this blog but what about mnaines? Why didn't you hire him? He needs a job.

No, we shouldn't abandon the children. I have a better idea. Let's make the parents responsible for raising their own kids. What? Yes, lets make them be responsible! I know that it's easier to make a bunch of poor schmucks pay out their tax dollars to feed someone else's kids but, instead, how about if we do the right thing and make the parents be responsible. You have a kid you gotta be responsible for its food, clothes, school, housing, etc, etc. I know that's hard but it's right. People might actually start taking pride in themselves and their abilities and their families one more. Let's give them jail time when they don't. I'll gladly pay my tax dollars to raise a child in a foster home while the irresponsible parent languishes in jail. It would be better than this never-ending cycle of court appearances, slaps on the wrist, etc for offenders while the rest of us pay for their sins.

Bless you, kingborg.

I don't know much about section 8 housing, aside from a small family home in my neighborhood that a new owner turned into a section 8 rental in a neighborhood of big older single family Victorian homes.  Mid-afternoon one day I went out to get the mail and a policemen behind one of my trees advised me to get back inside.  The street had been sealed off, and as I closed the door a van pulled up and an 8-person SWAT team jumped out and took off in a crouching run with their rifles ready.  About 3 dozen various law enforcement agency representatives later, the drug raid was over and the mother and two teenage sons gone.  The experience didn't endear section 8 housing to me, but I wouldn't presume to judge on one example.  The current family is quite nice, aside from the 2 dustmop dogs that make me think evil thoughts when they're in my yard daily.

An apology is due from me to jstol regarding his employment history.  I came into this blog site about a month after it started and never saw the old one, so must have missed something.  Not too long after I started, he was musing about what his life would have been like and what he could have achieved without the post-traumatic-stress problem after Vietnam.  The impression given was that he had come back unable to work.  Recently, there was a comment by him talking of several years work at a union job which was thus a surprise.  Not having read of any other employment in any other of his comments or profile, the implication was that the stress problem worsened until he was no longer able to work.  There is no good way to search old blogs, especially if what you're looking for is a comment on someone else's post.  Again, apologies on that front.

With respect to the comments by jstol and odessacon pooh-poohing the notion that anyone in America can possibly be hungry because SO MANY programs and pantries are out there, I rescind nothing.

I have the very good fortune to have a younger sister who is nothing short of a saint.  Forgive a long story, but there will be a point to it.  After a number of years working in Somalia for World Concern (including regular relief work at a leper colony - the background for my FACTS for an earlier blog), she and her husband returned to the US to live in Salem, Oregon.  They CHOSE (despite the urgings of all of us to live in a safer neighborhood), to buy a home in the seamiest part of Salem where they felt they could do the most good.

I have met MANY of the adults and children she works with on a regular basis when we have visited, not because it's her job any longer but because she CARES.  She works to help connect adults with drug addictions, involvement with prostitution, etc. with appropriate agencies and programs who can help.

I met a 10-year-old girl named Melissa, whose mother shaved her head regularly because it cost too much for lice control medication.  Her shame was in her eyes.  Two teenagers she works with were present when a third put a gun to his head and pulled the trigger.  My sister had been feeding the dead teen before the accident for some time because his parents were too sunk in alcoholism and drugs.  Another girl, Aqua, announced to my sister when she started middle school that she was gay.  A year later, she had a baby.  They was 13.  Only one parent, one who didn't care.  One single mother injected herself with rat poison when there was no money for drugs.  She died.  My sister cooks each night in quantity - plain food, but nutritious, because there are ALWAYS extra heads at her table.  Leftovers are non-existent.

Yes, the parents of these particular kids got food stamps and sold them for drugs and alcohol.  But what government agencies respond quickly enough to help these children?  My sister and her husband manage to get by themselves on what they earn from their jobs.  They'd be far better off if they had the added advantage of all the money they earn that they give away to those who are truly needy.

My sister started an afterschool study club and solicited help from teachers and people at her church so that there is tutoring at her home as well as a nutritious snack.  Her family attended the graduation ceremony this past spring for 2 of those children who had spent several years at the after school study group.  She told me later that night in a phone call that she was as proud as if they had been her own.

One single mom who was trying her hardest with 3 children went to my sister's church - up until the day she died of cancer at just over 30 years of age.  I got to know Donna myself, and was with her in the hospital 3 days before she died.  My sister tried to adopt the children per Donna's will which had made her their guardian.  My husband and I contributed financially to their financiial support.  The biological dad heard about it during a visit to townand went to court via a legal aid program.  This habitual drug user managed to stay clean for a month - just long enough to convince a judge he could be a good parent.  The court and the father all managed to ignore the fact that these kids came to him with extra money from the state for their support.  I doubt it ever went to feed them properly.  My sister is white and the 3 kids are black - the court decided against my sister because it was felt that the FAMILY (meaning the biological dad who hadn't been bothered with his kids for years) should be kept together at all costs.  No one to this day - my sister or the court or social services - has been able to check on the welfare of those kids.

I'm a bit off-topic by now, but I am sick and tired of allegations and criticisms from a couple of you that I have no idea of what I talk about, apparently because because my husband and I have made a good life for ourselves and I've spoken of it on some financial blogs.  We've also GIVEN a great deal of our prosperity and our time back to those who need it.  When you guys can say the same, I'll give your rants and raves a little more attention.

I have no expectation that anything I say will make any difference to you.  The best you achieve with many of your coments is to make me see red.  But I do hope that others, especially newcomers, who visit this site can have the opportunity to read the other side of the story, and realize that you two are not the most reasonable voices Kansas City has to offer.  The loudest, maybe, but not the most credible.

jstol3:

Did you by any chance contact any food pantries to see if they are having problems meeting the increased needs put upon them by the recession?

This is an area that I volunteer in and I see huge need all the time!  We can argue whether you can or cannot feed a family just on food stamps, but reality is that there are many people still in need in the state.

Bottom line, the program that is being discussed is a good program:

1)  It serves a huge need

2)  It does so in cooperation with government and the private sector.

3)  It is highly cost effective

4)  It is a safety net for the children of the people you claim are in trouble because of their own actions (be it choosing the wrong man or work ethics or cheats or what ever)  But if you insist that people are "using" the system, I don't understand why you would object to a program that feeds children whose parents are either incapable or unwilling to do so themselves.   

Do we just abandon these children?

One more set of comments on this blog.

My original comment said that children is this country should not be going hungry. Should is the operative word here. We have a lot of programs to make sure that they don't. I don't have a problem with the programs. I have a problem with the mis-use and fraud. If you put the means to feed the child into the hands of a designated responsible adult and the child is still hungry whose fault is it? I say it is the fault of the adult who didn't provide for the child after he was given the means to do so. Charge him or her with child neglect.

nemo -

You are intellectually dishonest because you refuse to assign blame where blame belongs.

I know this about you: You are a poker player. If you play poker like you suggest we run our society I sure that you seldom take home any winnings because you would have to give the winnings back out of pity for the loser's family. I also know that you are a hard-nosed interviewer when you have to hire someone. Why don't you apply the same principles to hiring people as you want to apply to society as a whole - just hire the first one in the door because they "need the job". I'll tell you why you don't - you don't because you know that approach to hiring won't work. You said so yourself!

Be Strong -

I could jab a figurative stick into your figurative eye but I won't. It would be beneath me. I remember when your attitude began to change and I remember why.

I grew up in a very poor neighborhood in St.louis.I saw the abuse FIRST HAND AND IT WAS WIDESPREAD! How much do YOU REALLY KNOW about that side of town?????????Ive lived in it and believe what you want IM NOT EXAGGERATING!

No one,not me or jstol are saying to abolish the food stamp or asst programs.EVERYONE should be able to agree that many of these programs are redundant AND ABUSED!!!!!!!! Alittle reform....maybe?????????

As far as my menu goes......Substitute one of the veggies with fruit for supper or is that TOO hard for folks to figure out?FRESH veggies/fruit??????? As far as Im concerned they have the same vitamins and nutrients but there again  a little planning goes a long way. First you guys say you CAN be hungry in America(fully meaning malnurished) and I PROVE you can get THREE MEALS A DAY FOR A FAMILY OF FOUR and you guys still arent happy and then start talking about how they pay their bills!!!!!!!GOVERNMENT HOUSING AND UTILITIES ASST PROGRAMS.BY LAW companies cant shut off heating oil or electric on a family if they have kids EVEN IF THEY CANT PAY FOR IT.

How many Americans families follow the FDA reccomended nutrition chart to a T????LOL, Come on!

Bottom line: Your compassion is admirable but to suggest that people go hungry after eating 3 meals a day is rediculous!(BTW The sugar is for sweetening the oatmeal,even though its flavored and for kool-aid enough for 1 gal a day!What you dont buy sugar??)And to suggest they are forced to live in the streets or without heat..........IS JUST PLAIN WRONG!!!!!!!!If you think its ok for a Mom to NOT HAVE TO MAKE TOUGH DECISIONS AND SACRIFICE BECAUSE SHE CHOSE THE WRONG GUY TO HAVE KIDS WITH IS REDICULOUS!!!!!We should just let her sit at home and fund her whole life becasue of bad choices?????? We ALREADY ARE willing to buy most IF NOT ALL of thier food and provide housing for them.....just when is it you guys think she should have to kick in a little besides raising her kids? We all work AND raise our kids!

Furthermore, Ode, when you're a single parent with several kids, how in heaven's name do you work your part-time job at McDonald's for minimum wage without child care?  The poorest care around would cost more than you make.  Are there buses running?  Because if you had the money to drive, as BeStong noted, you wouldn't be in this situation in the first place.  Bus money reduces what you make even more.  Or perhaps they should walk several miles each way if no other transportation is available and that's the only job they can get?

Or do you want them to work at night when the kids are asleep, so they don't have to pay for child care?  I'm sure you'd be one of the first to condemn that same parent if the apartment went up in smoke while they were at work and the kids died.

You need to get off your computer for a while.  Take off the blinkers, walk around a poor neighborhood for an afternoon, and actually TALK to the people you seem to know so much about.  Sorry - I guess you'd have to leave the air conditioning behind to do that, to actually acknowledge there is real misery beyond the invisible fence you've surrounded yourself with.

 

 

 

Lots of comments on this.  Let's look at a few.

Odessacon says:

"its unreasonable to attack a VETERAN that WAS INJURED fighting for our freedom when he is pointing out the REALITY that many of our social programs are abused by people that have never held a job for any substantial period of time and sure as hell havent faught on a battlefield for their country."

Your veteran has NO problem attacking anyone for anything he feels like...so I don't think Ladyjean's comments are in ANY way out of line.   He's a big boy! 

Do some people abuse social programs?  Of course.  The question then becomes two-fold:

1)  How many people abuse these programs?  (If you listen to the Right it is an epidemic with ALL participants in these programs out to get something they don't deserve)   I think those cheats become an easy salve for your conscious.   It's easier to think about all of the people cheating the system than to think about the majority that NEED help from the system.  (And I think they are probably fewer than you would have us believe)

2)  Even if the adults  DO abuse the program....what do we do about the children.  Again, this comes back to Pro-Lifers more concerned about the quality of life before birth rather than after the birth.  (Note:  Rep. Davis was appointed chair of this committee by the House Speaker BECAUSE of her strong pro-life stance.)

Actually, if you believe that adults are abusing food stamps, then you should really support this summer program.   It feeds all those kids whose parents you say are selling food stamps and NOT putting food on the table.

Jstol says I'm intellectually dishonest because I post a picture of a child while talking about 16 year olds.  But the intellectually dishonest ones here are jstol3 and Rep. Davis who take a program designed to feed all children up to the age of 18 and trash it because kids at the upper end of the age limit could get jobs.  

I agree that kids can (& should) get jobs.   But this program is an example of how government CAN work efficently and be of help to it's citizens.   3.7 million meals is a lot of feeding for very little investment.  And the facts are simple....most of the kids on this program are too young to get jobs.  So we cut the program feeding kids like the one I pictured because older kids can get fed at McDonalds.

And yes, it is possible to eat & survive on food stamps.  But this program is an important aid to many Missourians who both work and are on food stamps.  (And that's a dirty little secret about food stamps....most of the people on them also have jobs.  It's just a $10/hour job for 40 hours a week doesn't buy much food when you also have to pay for rent, clothes, utilities, etc for a family of 4.  In many cases this program feeds kids while there parents are working during the day...something that the school does at other times of the year.

Bottom line, Rep. Davis is disgusting for her attitude and her legislation!   She also should NOT be chairing the state's committee on Children & Families if she knows so little about the issues that affect children & families in our state.

The

sometime bills take the lead over food.

Jstol - So your personal EXPERIENCE tells you there should be no hunger in America?  Sounds more like one single individual (you) extrapolating his "experience" into a FEELING.  But that can't be right, because you HATE feelings.  You want FACTS, anyday.

So, since internet research can't exactly prove/disprove your claim, how about sharing your weekly grocery bill with us?  What you bought for your $20-#25 a week to feed yourself.  And feel free to indicate how that translates into meals.  How many a day, and what are they comprised of?  Just the FACTS, mind you, so we can all evaluate them.  Then be sure to let us all know how the per person food stamp allotment works for growing children who need milk at $2.50 a gallon, bread at $1.50 a loaf, protein, etc.  You also have to allow for basic health needs like soap, toilet paper, shampoo, etc. as well.

For someone who has such an abhorance of entitlements, you certainly get around and use them.  Let's see - I remember you get Social Security, you've just mentioned the food stamps at some period that were "waaaaay" more than you needed (I assume you gave back what you didn't need, right?), a small veteran's check, and you are actively working to get another you feel you are not rightfully getting.

You mentioned not long after I first joined Fox4's blog site that you've often wondered how your life might have been different if you had worked all those past years.  Apart from the Vietnam service, you've mentioned a stint in industry as a union member.  Any I've missed?  The statement you made was that you haven't been able to work for many years because of Nam-related post-traumatic stress.

Anyway, considering the time and effort you put into blogging, it seems like you would have been and still are pretty capable of a computer-related desk job, at home if not on-site.  And no need for all the entitlements you are so convinced you earned but others shouldn't receive.

A disability is no fault of yours, and poverty is not the fault of many who live it.  It is FAR more than a "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" mentality.

I regret the need to have used your own shared stories of vulnerability against you, but your mental blindness, self-righteousness, and hypocrisy with respect to the poor and hungry in America asked for it.

 

jstol you become more of an ass everyday just go away.

If you have never had to experience living on food stamps, I invite you to read Sean Callebs blog at CNN.   He spent a month trying to live on food stamps.  He blogged about it daily.  It is an interesting and scary look at a world that most of us have never had to experience.

 

jstol3:

The comments made by Rep. Davis were regarding a SUMMER program that feeds school kids when school is out.  So, who cares that we offer free lunches during the  school year?  Should we tell growing children to just stop eating until September?

Why do children go to bed hungry at night?   For many reasons.

Sometimes it's because the parents just can't make ends meet.  If you think there is plenty of food available for the hungry because of food pantries...you are gravely mistaken.   Call any food pantry in the metro area and ask them if they are able to keep up with demand.

As to food stamps, a family of four is entitled to $668 per month for food stamps.  That's roughly $5.57 per person per day.   (Try keeping a 10 year old in milk for that.)   Any idea how many people go to the city market each weekend because they accept food stamps and it lets them buy the cheapest fresh vegetables?  It's many more than you would think.  Not all receipients of benefits are shiftless.

Do some parents sell their food stamps or the food from the pantries?  Probably.   So then the question becomes, what do these bad parents feed thier children?  And while they are bad parents...do we allow the children to starve?  (I realize everyone on this site is pro-life...I just wish they were as concerned about the children after birth as they are about the fetus before birth.)

If you truly believe that

"Poverty in America is now not owning a summer home and not being able to vacation in Europe."

I have met several vets through food pantries that might like to show you thier "summer home".

Even I know that this woman is not the typical Republican.  She's something else entirely and should be one representative that we can all agree needs to go away!